Here’s the tweetchat on book proposals held today. I’ve eliminated some of the comments that aren’t really relevant to the discussion — and our Twitter photos aren’t here.
But if you scroll down to the bottom and then read up, I hope you’ll find information that is useful to you.
— Phyllis Zimbler Miller
FrugalBookPromo Thanks for coming, all! @Zimblermiller, don’t forget that we’re going to try to save this thread for future use. (-:
LindaHanum Some of us are tech challenged but I finally figured it out thanx
ZimblerMiller @Frugalbookpromo Just finished scrolling down and following everyone who was nice enough to participate today.
FrugalBookPromo Me, too. Jennifer. And Joan is generous. She’s given my books and newsletter greater endorsements.
LaverneBardy Thanks for this first chat room experience. It was a blast. I learned a great deal and hope to speak with most of you again.
FrugalBookPromo Before you close up, may I suggest you scroll down and follow your fellow chatters? (-:
ZimblerMiller @LindaHanum We’re just wrapping up. Read down this tweet stream to check out what everyone said!
JenniferLawler I’ve subscribed for years: RT @FrugalBookPromo One of the best newsletters on marketing is Joan Stewart’s the Publicity Hound.
LaverneBardy @Everyone I sprung for Carolyn’s The Great First Impression Book Proposal (a whole 49 cents) and it was worth more.
LisaJJackson thank you! great to learn about tweetchat and book proposals, meet new folks, and see familiar faces :)
LindaHanum Hi ZimblerMiller, this is Lindahanum A Sephardi cooking instructor and recipe developer. I am writing my first book need advice
FrugalBookPromo I hope Phyllis and I will see you all again soon. WE love partnering on things like this.
FrugalBookPromo It’s called The Great First Impression Book Propsal. Truly you don’t have to read a whole book to “get it.” (-:
FrugalBookPromo Last reminder, for how to write a book propsoal that costs only 49C go to:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YG6O5U/
ZimblerMiller Thanks to everybody who participated in this tweetchat on book publishing.
writersinthesky @KarenCV I have only a few followers on my blog, but hundreds on my newsletter base.
FrugalBookPromo Writers today are not at the mercy of others. You control your own destiny. You CAN do it and you WILL!
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo Yes, I read Joan Stewart’s newsletter every week. And I link to her $10 reports from www.millermosaicllc.com
writersinthesky @FrugalBookPromo Yes, http://writersinthesky.com is my Web site.
FrugalBookPromo Thanks, @SPITsisters for retweet. I’d like to close with the idea that….see next tweet…
LaverneBardy @ZimblerMiller Phyllis, I look forward to learning more about Twitter. Thanks for all this valuable information.
ZimblerMiller @KarenCV I’d love a “newsletter” of news briefs. And with links, we can click on anything we want more info about.
FrugalBookPromo One of the best newsletters on marketing is Joan Stewart’s the Publicity Hound.
writersinthesky @ZimblerMiller I have news briefs from newsletter posted as sections on another blog http://writersinthesky.blogspot.com
KarenCV News Briefs is a great idea. Going through long newsletters is time consuming.
FrugalBookPromo @lavernebardy, Yvonne’s site is writersinthesky.com. I think.
LaverneBardy @writersinthesky Yikes! 7 blogs. I’m interested in all kinds of blogging..not just writing.
ZimblerMiller @LaverneBardy You’ve really gotten the hang of this quickly. Now you have to fill out your Twitter profile and add photo.
FrugalBookPromo Actually, my newsletter gives lots of info in tip format, @ZimblerMiller. And, you’re right. Everyone’s favorite is the alltips edit
writersinthesky @LaverneBardy Writers in the Sky Blog and Podcast
FrugalBookPromo @KarenCV. Good girl! (-: There’s lots about building platforms in The Frugal Book Promoter, though I don’t call it that.
ZimblerMiller @writersinthesky If you wanted to shift from newsletter, could you send out NEWS BRIEFS each week with the most important info?
LaverneBardy @writersinthesky What’s the name of your site?
writersinthesky @LaverneBardy I have 7 blogs, but the one on writing is http://yvonneperry.blogspot.com
FrugalBookPromo Some newsletters are long, some short, but all keep you in touch with your readers. Even Romance writers use them. (-:
KarenCV I recently bought both the editor and promoter books of yours. – Will read!
ZimblerMiller The internet is shifting publishing power from agents/publishers to writers. I expect the next 5 years will see tremendous changes.
FrugalBookPromo I love @writersinthesky’s newsletter. Give us a URL, Yvonne.
writersinthesky @ZimblerMiller My newsletter is a feebie on my site, but subscribers get 2 bonus e-books as well.
FrugalBookPromo @KarenCV, in fact there is a section in The Frugal Book Promotor showing you how to syndicate your articles or review. Self syndicate
LaverneBardy @writersinthesky Tell me how to get your blog. I’d like to read it. Is it all about writing, or about everything in general?
FrugalBookPromo Karen, as long as you still retain rights, you can put your material anywhere you want it. (-:
ZimblerMiller If we’re writers, then writing articles, blog posts, newsletters, etc. should be easier for us than for others.
KarenCV Can you put articles you’ve submitted to ezines on your blog also?
FrugalBookPromo Love the term “repurposing,” @writersinthesky. I always just called it good oud “recycling.” LOL.
ZimblerMiller @writersinthesky Is your newsletter your feebie on your site? @FrugalBookPromo and I are using blogging chapter on our new site.
FrugalBookPromo And there are things you can do with blogs in that article @zimblermiller just mentioned to get blog traffic up.
writersinthesky @FrugalBookPromo Repurposing or multi-purposing material is a must: what you use in a newsletter you can put in a blog.
LaverneBardy @writersinthesky WOW. Thanks for that valuable information. I’ll check that out.
lpontius Thanks everyone. I didn’t say much, but I learned quite a bit. Good night!
FrugalBookPromo readers. And that is important, too. Bloggers tend to surf, though many subscribe, too. Again, factor in your personality.
ZimblerMiller @LaverneBardy Thanks for asking. Get free blogging chapter from me and @Frugalbookpromo at www.fictionmarketing.com
FrugalBookPromo i.e. you can recycle your material and appeal to different audiences. My newsletter gets MUCH more readership than my blog. LOYAL
writersinthesky @LaverneBardy Start a blog at blogger.com It’s free and easy.
IndigoGardens ‘Night all. This has been very useful. Thanks.
FrugalBookPromo So is Hope Clark’s and Joan Stewart’s And mine (sorry, but it is! ). And what you use in a newsletter you can put in a blog.
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo And I read @Bookgal’s newsletter — but hers is actually pretty brief.
SPITsisters RT @FrugalBookPromo”Remember, your job is to put your best blooms forward-like a great florist.Never fib but make yourself look good”
writersinthesky @ZimblerMiller My newsletter is a ton of work. Hard to tell if it brings in sales but new folks join my list daily.
FrugalBookPromo Well, that’s one reason blogs have become popular, but here’s the thing. Penny Sansevieri’s newsletter is good for her.
LaverneBardy @ZimblerMiller Any clues to how to get started with a blog? I’d love to start one.
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo But isn’t your newsletter an awful lot of work?
FrugalBookPromo Absolutely, @writersinthesky, my newsletter Sharing with Writers is a big part of my platform. It started small and grew.
ZimblerMiller @writersinthesky And with blog posts, you can tweet about them and keep in front of more people.
FrugalBookPromo Thanks for the retweet, Yasmin. Glad I’m so quotable. LOL.
ZimblerMiller @writersinthesky I think a blog with brief posts is a much better choice than a newsletter. Who has time to read a newsletter?
FrugalBookPromo Further, as writersinthesky says, you have to sell it. Otherwise you idea isn’t doing you any good anyway.
FrugalBookPromo About that “giving away ideas” stuff. It is possible that someone could take your idea. but highly unlikely.
YasminShiraz RT @FrugalBookPromo: As you write &publish &publish &write, your platform just naturally builds, Kris.Twitter helps build platforms.
writersinthesky @FrugalBookPromo What about a newsletter, blog, or Ning group participation?
FrugalBookPromo If you build a big following on Twitter,that is a small part of a platform. But it helps.
FrugalBookPromo Further, as you write and publish and publish and write, your platform just naturally builds, Kris.Twitter helps build platforms.
writersinthesky @IndigoGardens Give away enough to intrigue and show value.
LaverneBardy @IndigoGardens Don’t be afraid to give away your topic. Even if someone attempts to steal it, it will never be the same as yours.
ZimblerMiller We need to put ourselves into the head of our target market — which is first agents/publishers. How to show them that we’ll sell .
FrugalBookPromo You don’t have to take “no” for an answer anymore. In fact, nonfiction books may make you more money self-pubbed that traditional.
ZimblerMiller @IndigoGardens Not sure what you mean. Have to be willing to share info to attract fan base.
FrugalBookPromo That’s what they say, Kris. But remember there is always the exception. Plus, there are dozens of other ways to publish.
IndigoGardens Another ? How to use social networking to develop platform/fan base if careful about giving topic away/copyrights?
ZimblerMiller @writersinthesky Exactly — social networking is a great way to build a platform. But I knew nothing of this a year ago. And now .
kriswrite I keep hearing editors want a huge platform base for nonfiction. A website that gets a few thousand unique hits a month “isn’t enof”
writersinthesky @ZimblerMiller Social networking is a great way to build your platform
FrugalBookPromo Phyllis as an example does programs on blogtalkradio. She’s helping others and building a platform.
FrugalBookPromo All those things contribute to the success of your book.
ZimblerMiller In the past a platform meant you were a syndicated columnist or a tv or radio show host; now the internet lets you do all this.
FrugalBookPromo Your expertise is your platform. Your publishing is your platform. Your ability to speak is your platform.
FrugalBookPromo Don’t feel silly. It’s a new term. It means what you’ve done that shows you can both write and/or promote your book.
LaverneBardy @JoHall I hadn’t thought about illustrations but that could work.
ZimblerMiller Platform in book agent/pub speak means that you have a fan base — the wider the better.
FrugalBookPromo One of them is writing articles and give them away (or sell them if you must) And yes, this works for fiction writers,too.
FrugalBookPromo …isn’t the only way. There are also lots of really frugal ways to build a platform.
IndigoGardens I feel silly, but I don’t know what you mean by platforms.
ZimblerMiller @cookiemaven Be very careful what you read into “passes.” It could mean anything.
FrugalBookPromo There is a whole chapter on that, too, in The Frugal Book Promoter. Speaking is my favorite way to build platform/promote but it…
ZimblerMiller Here’s another site @MillerMosaicLLC did for me for a graphic novel series — http://www.molliesanders.com
cookiemaven one agent wrote it sounds delicious but this is not right for us at this time . what do you get from that
FrugalBookPromo Kris, there are hundreds of ways to build a platform. You can do it just by writing. Sitting behind your computer and writing.
ZimblerMiller @kriswrite That’s why I love the internet. Running around in front of my own computer.
FrugalBookPromo Yes, Larry. It would be wonderful if we had a few agents in on this chat. That kind of thing can be very helpful!
JooHall Laverne, if your columns are humorous, and even mine that aren’t I think might lend themselves to some illustrations (comics style)
ZimblerMiller @frugalbookpromo You are so right. People underestimate who and what they are in terms of selling books.
kriswrite @FrugalBookPromo Which is great. I just hate platforms because I’m a mom of young children & don’t want to run around doing “talks”
Nicole_Odell @ZimblerMiller right on
ZimblerMiller … yes, we’re out there — click on our links to see what we mean. Much more visual than a list of all our internet places.
FrugalBookPromo And you do, too, have things you can mention. Most new authors underestimate their own platform/abilities/expertise.
ZimblerMiller @Nicole_Odell Thanks so much re http://www.fictionmarketing.com — a picture is worth a thousands words, right? We’re saying …
Nicole_Odell @ZimblerMiller great!
cookiemaven thanks I will go to your website
FrugalBookPromo Remember, your job is to put your best blooms forward–like a great florist. Never fib but make yourself look good.
ZimblerMiller @MichelePW I will definitely let you know if it works. @FrugalBookPromo and I are going to blog at the site re this experience.
FrugalBookPromo Kris, we haven’t talke about platforms. Actually you’ll find info on how to do that in my The Frugal Book Promoter.
Nicole_Odell @ZimblerMiller Oh, that looks really professional. I love the idea. I hope to hear that it pays off for you.
lpontius Aha! Thanks.
FrugalBookPromo Phyllis and I figure we might as well take advantage of her knowledge of tech. (-:
Nicole_Odell @lpontius Facebook, twitter, blogs, etc
ZimblerMiller @lpontius Social media — Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, blogs. I sell a report re this for book marketing at www.millermosaicllc.com
FrugalBookPromo If the book proposal was for a book on crafts, making the presentation crafty might be a very good idea. LOL.
FrugalBookPromo But if an author overdoes it, it comes off looking unprofessional and too crafty. But what if the book is about crafts! LOL.
ZimblerMiller You can get a sneak peek at our site http://www.FictionMarketing.com — my daughter @MillerMosaicLLC did the site.
Nicole_Odell @kriswrite not yet
FrugalBookPromo Indigo Gardens, if you think a visual will help–actually add something, by all means!
ZimblerMiller Re @frugalbookpromo It’s a marketing concept I’m trying out — create the website to show our platform before we send proposal out.
kriswrite I’m coming in late here, sorry. Have you discussed writing up your platform so it sounds as impressive as it is (or better)?
Nicole_Odell @fbkpro I’ll be interested to see how that works out.
lpontius What do you mean by social media? Duh!
ZimblerMiller Exactly a year ago when my novel came out I had NO PLATFORM. Now I have blogs and very active on Twitter, etc. People know me.
FrugalBookPromo They can just then download a pdf. So you could do some color or a cover for a pdf file! But not too fancy. This is a business doc.
ZimblerMiller @cookiemaven Because I had no internet presence (except email) while I shopped my book. Now social media enables you to be known.
FrugalBookPromo Phyllis and I are trying something a bit new for our proposal. She’s made a website to distribute it to interested agents.
FrugalBookPromo Most proposals are submitted by e-mail these days. (-: Depends on what agents want but most are fine with virtual.
ZimblerMiller And it was placing in the Amazon contest that led me to internet marketing and creating call-to-action websites.
LaverneBardy jtumayoung I believe it’s IWWG who has a huge conference in Manhattan every year where we have the opportunity to meet agents.
FrugalBookPromo I believe in being frugal. You can buy labels and apply to the outside of a folder for your propsoal. But remember…
Nicole_Odell @IndigoGardens Most are emailed. At least that’s what I’ve found. A title page is fine.
FrugalBookPromo Use only “partner” though. “Partner together” is redundant. Brings up another point. Use zero-tolerance editing! LOL.
ZimblerMiller @ljsellers — Mine was last year’s Amazon — the first time contest held. So my book came out in April of ’08.
jtumayoung @FrugalBookPromo THANK YOU!!! you rock!!
IndigoGardens Does anyone have suggestions for the presentation of the proposal? I created a faux cover jacket, thinking a visual might help. ???
Nicole_Odell Sure, Phyllis…it’s all the same alphabet
FrugalBookPromo JT. Call Gotham Writers in Manhattan and ask them for conferences that invite agents.
ZimblerMiller @Nicole_Odell This is a great line — “let’s partner together to provide this resources.” Can we use this line?
LaverneBardy @ZimblerMiller Thanks for explaining. Makes sense.
cookiemaven what do you mean if Id been on social media
jtumayoung @FrugalBookPromo any conferences good for finding agents on the east coast? i’m in nyc area!!
FrugalBookPromo That included part is one of the things I meant by voice. You want your personality to come through. It isn’t a textbook.
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo And very valuable info. I read it carefully — then relied on your knowledge for our joint book proposal.
Nicole_Odell I say things like, “Let’s partner together to provide this resource…” etc.
FrugalBookPromo If this feels like we’re not getting proposal meat and potatoes try http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YG6O5U/ Only 49cents.
ZimblerMiller @LaverneBardy You have to find a way to make agent/pub feel “included” and at the same time “hey, great info for the target aud”
cookiemaven going to the greenbriar foodwriters conference to rub elbows and learn
ZimblerMiller @LaverneBardy If you’re talking about a tech subject, you don’t want the agent/publisher to feel lost. That agent/pub is not your aud
Nicole_Odell Wow, that’s amazing Phyllis
ZimblerMiller My novel was already in self-publishing process when it was named an Amazon semi-finalist. But I still think I made the right call.
FrugalBookPromo Yes, San Diego State conference is a good place for finding agents. Be careful though. Some conferenes are good for that others not.
lpontius Yes, that’s what I mean.
LaverneBardy @ZimblerMiller Please explain what you mean about not making an agent/publisher feel stupid.
ZimblerMiller @cookiemaven Depends on how much time you have. After years and years I decided to self-publish. But if I’d been on social media..
Nicole_Odell @cookiemaven Have you been to a conference or somewhere you can rub elbows?
Nicole_Odell @cookiemaven I think it’s awesome you don’t doubt the book. WTG.
ZimblerMiller @lpontius That’s a lost opportunity cost.
ZimblerMiller If you’re writing a nonfiction proposal, I think it’s important not to make the agent/publisher feel stupid. So it’s a thin line.
cookiemaven I need pointers on what to do if many months pass and you don’t get an agent. I don’t doubt the book
lpontius There can also be a huge cost when an agent fails to recognize a new true talent. Right?
IndigoGardens @FrugalBookPromo Do you have samples of good proposals?
FrugalBookPromo Or check publishers websites. No point in sending a proposal if they say they can only be sent by agents!
FrugalBookPromo But Writer’s Digest codes their entries. Some publishers take proposals without agents. Others not.
LaverneBardy @JoHall Why don’t we “talk” some time. Sounds intriguing.
FrugalBookPromo So most people writing proposals will be submitting to agents first.
FrugalBookPromo Nicole, yes. something to hook the agent or publisher. They’re only human! Ha! They don’t want to be bored to death.
ZimblerMiller There’s a huge cost for an agent taking on a new author. That “cost” is an opportunity cost — time spent on a newbie.
jtlongandco An agent represents your interests and deals with the business side. Valuable.
Nicole_Odell fbp: it’s nicoleodell.blogspot.com. now I’ll shut up about it. it just seemed weird because it’s so timely.
FrugalBookPromo Remember, though, agents and traditional publishers aren’t the only path. You have control over your own writing career now.
FrugalBookPromo Cookie, if you’re having trouble getting an agent, it could be the times. many are cutting back.
Nicole_Odell overview: succinct, special, unique. If the reader doesn’t read it wishing there were many more pages to read, it’s unsuccessful
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo Let’s first describe what goes into an overview — it’s something Carolyn is very good at.
FrugalBookPromo Nicole, if you want to give us the address so we can look up the blog later, that’s a good thing.
JooHall I’ve been wondering, Laverne, about selling it to package with some senior product???
FrugalBookPromo Good point, Phyllis.
cookiemaven I am finding it hard to get an agent
Nicole_Odell get you to my blog…but only to show that it’s something to think about
IndigoGardens @FrugalBookPromo So should we be talking about how to write an proposal to an agent? Does it differ from writing one to a publisher?
FrugalBookPromo Do any of you want to weigh in on an overview?
Nicole_Odell I’m sorry to keep bringing up my blog, but I just posted about the difference btw proposing an agent or a pub…
ZimblerMiller I believe in having as many people as possible on your team. It’s as if you’re a company with a marketing dept, a X dept, etc.
FrugalBookPromo But you won’t get an agent if you don’t let him/her hear your voice.
FrugalBookPromo And an agent will protect you from fly-by-night publishers–or should.
FrugalBookPromo Yes, the same for agents as a publisher. But an agent will probably get you more money.
Nicole_Odell @Indigo not if you’re published-such a catch 22. But I still think it’s a bit easier. And, even if hard, once done it makes you
FrugalBookPromo That’s the thing about genre fiction. It often doesn’t stay on the books a real long time. So, they always need new authors, new books
LaverneBardy @JooHall – We could possibly target the same audience and widen our audience.
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo The same effective proposal is needed to get an agent as to get a publisher, isn’t it?
Nicole_Odell I admit that I got sooo lucky. But, I’m currently considering a few agents even though I now have direct access to the pub.
IndigoGardens @Nicole_Odell Thanks. I’ve been hearing lately that it is as difficult to find a good agent as a publisher. True?
FrugalBookPromo Agents earn their money. My book The Frugal Editor has quotes from agents. They are really a pretty good lot!
FrugalBookPromo Exactly Nicole. If you haven’t decided to self publish, then an agent by all means.
Nicole_Odell Phyllis, I think you’re right, too. Pretending the competition doesn’t exist. Do authors think the publishers don’t already know?
FrugalBookPromo Phyllis, you mean if it’s a proposal for fiction? Not unless they have an angle that they think would make a big difference.
Nicole_Odell Indigo, I would recommend an agent. don’t think of it as giving away 15% think of it as buying more exposure, better representation
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo And by voice in a proposal you mean how you’ll “sound” in the book?
JooHall No, mine suggests possible job opportunities, etc. after retirement, how to do resumes, and other retirement issues.
cookiemaven I think I need an agent I am a cookie book author
FrugalBookPromo People start feeling like they’re writing a business letter. They get stilted. And throw out fact after fact.
FrugalBookPromo What I suggest in The Great First Impression Book Proposal is that the biggest mistake is not letting your voice come through.
LisaJJackson Not including enough information.
ZimblerMiller @FrugalBookPromo I would guess that people don’t include the competition for their proposed book.
LaverneBardy JooHall, sounds like you and I are attempting to write the same kind of book. Is yours humor
Nicole_Odell They are interactive fiction for pre-teen girls. they come to a moral decision and make their own choice about the ending
FrugalBookPromo What do you all think is the most common mistakes people make in writing book proposals?
Nicole_Odell right, FBP, I just wrote a blog series about this and cautioned people not to expect that kind of thing.
FrugalBookPromo And then only sometimes. So, Romance, Sci-Fi, etc.
FrugalBookPromo Nicole’s situation isn’t common, though. More often, agents want fiction complete before they’ll look Exceptions are genre fiction.
Nicole_Odell the first two were well received and will be out in July. we’re currently working on contracts for 2 more
Nicole_Odell LOL a good idea I guess. But then I had to write the books.
IndigoGardens How important is an agent for a first non-fiction proposal?
ZimblerMiller @Nicole_Odell So tell us your magic secret.
Nicole_Odell no agent
Nicole_Odell yep, first time out of the box…first pub I sent to…first books I proposed..it was SUCH a rush
FrugalBookPromo Did you have an agent, Nicole?
FrugalBookPromo ….you do need a proposal for the next books or even the first one. But though I’d get that out of the way. Just in case.
JooHall I want to turn several years of syndicated columns on various senior subjects into a book to market to the newly retired.
Nicole_Odell My fictions were sold on the proposal and contracted w/o being written
FrugalBookPromo Exactly Lisa. Usually not. But here’s the surprise. Sometimes if you write in a series for a traditional publisher….
LaverneBardy A compilation of columns of my columns. A humorous slant on growing up and growing old.
cookiemaven drop cookies
LisaJJackson Didn’t think fiction needed a proposal.
timeofthefaerie A graphic novel on faerie mythology.
Nicole_Odell non-fict companion book for parents. I have a teen fiction series–1st 2 books out in July. Christian. 2 pub this week
FrugalBookPromo Anyone else want to weigh in on their book proposal. Anyone here doing a fiction proposal? I know. You’re surprised I’d ask that.
KarenCV For a children’s middle grade or chapter book fantasy. It could be either.
IndigoGardens Mine is a garden travel book.
LisaJJackson How to Increase Self Confidence through Public Speaking
FrugalBookPromo It’s a little late so let’s start. Let’s start with everyone typing in what your next book proposal will be on.If it’s secret, say so.
FrugalBookPromo Phyllis (@zimblermiller) and I are your leaders.